SHAG: A Modern Tale of Mammoth Proportions

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Don't you see the danger, John, inherent in what you're doing here? Genetic power is the most awesome force the planet's ever seen, but you wield it like a kid that's found his dad's gun. Um, I'll tell you the problem with the scientific power that you're using here, it didn't require any discipline to attain it.

You read what others had done and you took the next step. You didn't earn the knowledge for yourselves, so you don't take any responsibility for it. You stood on the shoulders of geniuses to accomplish something as fast as you could, and before you even knew what you had, you patented it, and packaged it, and slapped it on a plastic lunchbox, and now [bangs on the table]. I don't think you're giving us our due credit. Our scientists have done things which nobody's ever done before Yeah, yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should.

If I was to create a flock of condors on this island, you wouldn't have anything to say. This isn't some species that was obliterated by deforestation, or the building of a dam. I simply don't understand this Luddite attitude, especially from a scientist. I mean, how can we stand in the light of discovery, and not act?

What's so great about discovery? It's a violent, penetrative act that scars what it explores. What you call discovery, I call the rape of the natural world. Ian Malcolm hates science, and Hammond might as well hate science considering how little care and security he had regarding his clones.

People will argue about cloning being inhumane, and then have meat raised in terrible conditions for dinner.

We sent a lot of animals into space before we sent humans into space. In more than a few cases the animals died. Many people consider that to be unethical. The same principal applies to cloning a woolly mammoth or as close to cloning as we can. There is risk involved, yes, but there's also so much potential to learn from this. Discoveries in science lead to more discoveries in science. That's how science works. You release mammoths into the tundra, they eat a shitload of food, oops now the reindeer herds starve because they eat that too and the herd population collapses.

Your choices and research project led directly to the death of a huge number of animals. Elephants are highly intelligent animals. You've now created some insane half paleolithic, half modern elephant monster.

Mammoth Bucuresti

You keep it in a cage and constantly monitor it because you spent fifty million bucks developing it. It appears to be miserable, projected lifespan is years. The primary concerns are the subjective experience of the created animal and the ecological impacts of reintroduction, neither of which are easy to predict. Of course they are. He's discussing using this money for contemporary species in desperate need of it, instead of bringing back a species that the world has since adapted to live without.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. We should really think about choices like these and the effects they could have on us and our planet. If everyone thought "if you can, do! I'm not saying that we shouldn't clone mammoths, I just think it's a huge decision and we need to think through all the possible outcomes before we just do. Yeah, it would make a nice rug in front of the fireplace. My Siberian tiger is starting to loose hair.

A couple of teeth fell out of my Megalodon when it fell from the ceiling, need some replacements. Aside from direct ethical issues, others have pointed to the unforeseen risks of bringing back extinct species, such as the possibility that they could carry diseases dangerous to humans or livestock, or damage ecosystems.

You don't clone the disease when you clone the animal, and if it is such a danger to people or other animals then they would be in the same position as Mammoths. I'm not sure how I feel about using an Endangered species to breed a pseudo-Mammoth. Imo this elephant-invitro would be better for making more Asian Elephants than for making new Mammoths. I think we need to just be patient for when we are able to make artificial wombs instead of using living wombs.

Not the disease itself, its the potential for changes in disease transmission trajectories from introducing foreign species to existing ecosystems. Also, stating that "ecosystems are already damaged" isn't really an argument in support of anything, and there is no evidence I've seen to suggest re-introducing them will have any net gain. I'd believe mammoth cloning is possible after someone takes a frozen chicken from a supermarket shelf and clones it, using some other close species of a bird.

This has never been done yet, science is just not there yet. What if we clone it, and it ends up you can teach it to speak English? That Sesame Street shit blows my mind.. Except, you know, humans aren't the only reason mammoths died off. The end of the Ice Age got rid of their habitat and they had nowhere to live, so they died. The main ethical argument in the article is that they would have to use a surrogate Asian elephant mother, and since those elephants don't do well in captivity and are highly social creatures, it would be unethical treatment to the elephant.

Also, and this is just my positing, I wonder if the mother would react negatively to birthing something so different to itself. It is noted in the article that the similarity between the two is similar to the human and chimp relationship. Then what will feed the Dire-wolves when we clone them? And with no dire-wolves, what animal shall grace the sigil of House Stark for the Park of Ice and Fire, coming to the Yukon in ? I personally think there are large ethical concerns to be considered here. What would be the actual beneficial purpose of any of this other than saying "look what I can do?

There are larger concerns, such as people patenting the genomes of extinct organisms for monetary gain, the introduction of new luxury markets for mammoth tusks, the introduction of diseases, ecological disruption, etc. There also exist a set of challenges in supporting the creature in an ethically sound way. We go to great lengths to make sure animals are treated humanely, handled properly, and kept physically and emotionally healthy in a number of settings, but we have no behavioural or historical basis to model any of these standards on for an extinct animal. I am personally not against the concept in a general sense, but currently I don't think we have a deep enough understanding of the potential issues.

It seems that it would introduce more risks than it would benefits at the current time. Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy. Log in or sign up in seconds. Submit a new link. Please don't ever feed the trolls. Downvote, report and move on. Welcome to Reddit, the front page of the internet. Become a Redditor and subscribe to one of thousands of communities. Want to add to the discussion? I never thought of that Food me once, shame on you. Food me can't get food again. They were hunted to extinction.

Ours or the mammoths? Because one way or another, it's going to happen. I'm down with that. That's a really intense line of questioning I can't wait either. I am a robit. Buy some drivers you cheap old scot. Check the vending machine! I'll wait until we make a smaller one.

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Maybe a potbellied mini-mammoth? Could have it in the backyard like a pony. His ragged, fringed coat reminds her of shag carpet, and so the wooly mammoth is named Shag. Shag grows quickly, and he grows so large he fears for the herd's safety and shelters with the Stevensons, who welcome him as a family member into their hearts and home.

When megalomaniacal fashion designer Monsieur d'LeFolb and his nine Mo-Dels arrive to stage the ultimate outdoor fashion show in a nearby hamlet, the Stevensons' secret is discovered. Monsieur d'LeFolb desires Shag for himself, and the planned photo shoots turns into a mammoth hunt. Ina, Ian, and Baird vow to protect Shag from this commercial fascist, who not only desires the exquisite wool but plans to clone the animal for use in age-defying cosmetics. Welsh Writing in English: A Yearbook of Critical Essays. Devoted solely to the study of Welsh writing in English, this academic journal provides a forum for critical discussion on Welsh literature and authors.

With essays from Victor Golightly on Dylan Thomas, language, and the deaf; Matthew Jarvis on the poetics of place in Ian Davidson's poetry; and Lucy Stevenson on two drafts of an unpublished Dorothy Edwards short story, this journal provides an opportunity to explore the tradition of English-language writing in Wales. The Essential Shakespeare Live Encore. As in the first volume, all the recordings are being published for the first time. The extracts, chosen by RSC Chief Associate Director Gregory Doran, are taken from productions that were not included previously, so as to complement the first volume.

The roll-call of prestigious portrayals runs from Paul Robeson's legendary Othello in to David Tennant's highly-acclaimed Hamlet in Children Who Remember Previous Lives: A Question of Reincarnation. Reviews of the first edition called it "an impressive book European Cases of the Reincarnation Type. Many cultures accept that a person may die and then come back to life in another form, but Westerners have traditionally rejected the idea. Recently, however, surveys conducted in Europe indicate a substantial increase in the number of Europeans who believe in reincarnation, and numerous claims of reincarnation have been reported.

This book examines particular cases in Europe that are suggestive of reincarnation. The first section provides a brief history of the belief in reincarnation among Europeans. The second section considers eight cases from the first third of the twentieth century that were not independently investigated, but were reported and sometimes published by the persons concerned. The third section covers 32 cases from the second half of the twentieth century that were investigated by the author. Many of these cases involved either children who exhibited unusual behavior attributed to a previous life, or adults who experienced recurrent or vivid dreams attributed to a previous life.

In the fourth section, the author compares European cases suggestive of reincarnation with those of other countries and cultures. British and Irish Literature, This collection of essays by renowned literary scholars offers a sustained and comprehensive account of the relation of British and Irish literary modernism to colonialism. Bringing postcolonial studies into dialogue with modernist studies, the contributors move beyond depoliticized appreciations of modernist aesthetics as well as the dismissal of literary modernism as irredeemably complicit in the evils of colonialism.

They demonstrate that the modernists were not unapologetic supporters of empire. Many were avowedly and vociferously opposed to colonialism, and all of the writers considered in this volume were concerned with the political and cultural significance of colonialism, including its negative consequences for both the colonizer and the colonized.

Ranging over poetry, fiction, and criticism, the essays provide fresh appraisals of Joseph Conrad, T. Lawrence, Wyndham Lewis, E. The essays that bookend the collection connect the modernists to their Victorian precursors, to postwar literary Born Again includes the most important cases providing evidence of reincarnation, including cases researched by Ian Stevenson MD at the University of Virginia.

These principles include the observations that facial features, personality traits, talents, and passions can remain consistent from lifetime to lifetime. Semkiw also reviews the very significant Ian Stevenson twin study case, which shows that souls can plan lifetimes, so that loved ones can be reunited in families through reincarnation. Xenoglossy cases researched by Ian Stevenson, MD, where individuals can speak and understand a foreign language that was not learned by normal means, are also presented.

These cases show that past life personalities are retained intact within the soul. Born Again is a reincarnation primer that sets the stage for additional cases presented on the www. Carti ian stevenson Pret: Disponibil in zile! Tucker Viata inainte de viata. Disponibil in 14 zile!

Even losers of the battle of cannae were accepted with open arms and thanked for not disparing on republic. Andrei, you mentioned intelligence. Is this really beyond speculations as a fact? As gorbachob or some other members of the top leadership recruited? For me frankly it makes no sense. It is like Emperor giving up the crown to peddle mjles or pizza in this case. For me it always looked like fools more dangerous than enemy proverb. I had second thoughts after reading Yakovlev.

Due to your contacts you might have information others do not. Clearly, what the author is seeking to do is to deny the existence of the Ukrainian people and, by extension, deny their right to a sovereign nation-state. The pseudo-historical discourse is just an elaborate pretext for making that, essentially racist, argument and no time needs to be wasted on it. The French might not agree! Finally, one might wonder why a mere translator feels the need to conceal his real identity.

But there sre surely exceptions in the sense that traditions and distinctive habits of mind which can be traced back years and more clearly shape behaviour today. Amongst modern people the Japanese stand out. And a lot of tribal cultures enjoyed continuity going back for many centuries at least until well into the 20th century, did they not? Music was good, no doubt. We got beaten in that department.

I suspect that neither Russian language nor background could lead to this kind of music. Russian, good Russian music is basically a soul music not rythmical but flowing. For me it was just a music but for many a window into alternative reality. And I think the real question here is: This needs to be analyzed thoroughly, and in an objective not ideological or demagogic manner — something that still has not been done properly, in my opinion.

Not only is it not dangerous, it is much to be lauded. Now that is what I call truly dangerous shit. We do not have enough information with a lot of speculations available online. However my guess would be wrong people in wrong places, people without merit and of limited mental capacity and with major character flaws at the very pinacle of power, lack of checks and balances and too much power vested in general Secretary position and peculiarities of national character.

It was also inconsivable for say Roman patricians or high placed plebean nobels to admire all things Greek to the point of prostituting oneself due to Greeks superiority in all things material, phylosophical and scientific. They enjoyed the fruit but despised contemporary greeks. I seem to vaguely remember seeing some youtube animation of the Japanese history, with 3 different ethnic groups invading and dominating each other, back and forth.

Or something like that. Then there is the apparent underlying attitude that only Japanese belong to the same species which is consistent with their total rejection of multiculturalism and zero quota for refugees. The young lady in question met a charismatic foreigner when on holiday abroad and married him which her family and friends all seem to adapt to happily but that may have been behaviour mediated by long tradition too.

As for Australian Aborigines — and other hunter gatherer people without a written language, the years would be only a small part of the continuous rituals for living in a substantially unchanging environment. If I remember right, he claimed that the Soviet Bolsheviks through their intelligence agencies such as the KGB were deliberately trying to destroy the culture and morality of the West to weaken and destroy it. How ironic, if true, that the success of those efforts boomeranged back onto the Soviet Union with those corrupted Western values then infecting and corrupting the Soviet Union.

No one else has managed to keep an single bloodline on the monarchy for that long, even if it is for show. But in whole in Central and Eastern block, as it is usual in Slavic countries over whole history, when crisis is coming people are going back to roots and Nationalism is again back even in different forms across Poland, Hungary, Balkan, even in Ukraine….

Question is as usually who will be uniting factor? All of them already had that role in past history.. I forgot, my apology goes for Slovakia — their turn is now;- They are Central Central Europe , closer idealy in middle of Poland, Czechia, Ukraine, — not far from Russia many of share ancestors wish Hungary, mentality exactly in middle of all;-. Still, even there, looking back further than years probably amounts to creating myths and legends. Anyway, Japan is an island, a bunch of islands in the middle of nowhere.

In Europe, middle east, north Africa — cultural far-removed past is just completely meaningless, imo. Too much migration, mixing and matching, wars, genocides, god knows what. I once talked to a guy in mountain Adjaria, which used to be occupied and assimilated by either Muslim Turks or Christian Georgians, changing every few decades.

In the end, he said, they learned to build churches that could easily pass for mosques when Turks come. Same with the rituals, dialects, and so on. Never heard of him. However values that we were learning since early age by any means were far superior and more human than what was and especially goes under values nowdays.

The problem is that the path of virtue is always far harder to follow than the path of sin and egoism. Soviet people only saw the glossy part never seeing the ugly underwear of the west and even when told truth they did not believe until they learned it first hand. I was among those who never bought into western values and cherished ours. I advice to watch Soviet era cartoons and movies to see for yourself sort of values that were considered laudable.

A Brief History of Russian National Sentiment

In the 16th century Tsardom of Russia is no serfdom. In the 17th century in Tsardom of Russia introduced serfdom, but it is relatively soft, serfdom almost absent. In the 18th century serfdom in Russia was strengthened at the same time, the percentage of serfs in the General population decreases and the percentage of free peasants is growing.

To corvee in Russia usually was 2 days a week. In Poland was legalized: In Poland Corvee was first insignificant; according to the statutes of and But by Corvee was increased to three days a week, and by , up to six days per week. In addition it is necessary to take into account the relative number of serfs. That is, in General, in the Western Russian lands, serfdom was more severe. Of course you can find minor points on which the Polish serfs had the advantage and it is possible to find minor points on which the Russian serfs had the advantage.

But the situation as a whole is determined by the system of Corvee, which in Poland was much more brutal. The book described several ways in which Russian serfdom was harsher earlier in the 18th century Poland implemented some reforms: At the same time, the peasants could escape from their landlords at any time, the process tacitly legitimized by the Tsar power and severely constrained the landlords. So as land plots decreased, peasants were forced to give more to the lord on less land per peasant, leaving less for themselves..

That is legalized oppression of the peasant was almost unlimited. Russian peasants could appeal to the court against their landlords as in , the peasants Komolowski estat around St. Petersburg have won a court case against their landlord. It was obviously not serious proposition. I do not see any political will, figure or aim there. Just if you look back in history other Slavic nations already had their share in history. For what I already mentioned you can add that Slovaks are Catholic nation, yet they have in their Coat of arms Byzantine Cross..

All surviving documents Chronicles, wills, letters, religious literature written in Russian. And please give the exact quote Vernadsky. And most importantly, Pushkin unlike most nobles knew French, but wrote poems in the Russian language. Of course, but in General, Moscow militarily were stronger. Russian realm 10 wars won and 3 lost. According to this, in General, the Moscow government is better defended his subjects from the enemy.

In Novgorod, Ivan executed approximately 1, people. Czarnecki in some Stavishche probably destroyed more. Stavishche was destroyed during a war.

Meaning of "shag" in the English dictionary

Novgorod was massacred during peace-time, at the whim of the despot. Under Moscow, Rus people could be expected to be massacred just for no reason, if their despot felt like doing so. The Mongols and Russia. A History of Russia, Vol. Yale University Press pp. Parts of Russia such as the North are not amenable to serfdom; other parts such as Siberia or the far east were settled later. A useful comparison would be of lands suitable for agriculture ruled by Moscow vs. Was serfdom lighter in Oryol vs. Do you have evidence that the number of victims of Tatar slave raids was lower or even different in Moscow-ruled lands vs.

Winning more wars vs. It was a typo. Give the rest of the world a fucking break. BTW, and issue you ignored was the fact that within the Commonwealth serfdom was much lighter in many Rus lands than it was in Poland itself; Polish serfs were in a much worse position than were most Rus serfs:. In the 16th and 17th centuries there were three distinct serfdom belts in Ukrainian territories.

In Western Ukraine, where the filvarky were most developed, the peasants were exploited intensely and had the smallest allotments. In the middle belt, encompassing eastern Podilia and the northwestern Kyiv region, mixed alodial and conditional land tenure lasted longer, and the transition to filvarok farming was slower. The large landowners there were usually content to receive payment in kind, and the peasants were not completely or uniformly deprived of the right to own land. In the third belt, covering the lands along the Dnieper River and the Boh River in southwestern Ukraine, serfdom was difficult to impose: Because this is the main difference.

In Russia majority of serfs paid money rent or natural rent, while in Poland the majority of serfs were subject of corvee. Fernand Braudel — very, very, very respected historian and no doubt trust published academic sources The source I provided — Fernand Braudel Civilization and Capitalism, 15thth Century, Vol.

In all other publications that I found, it is stated about the same. Everything in the world has its own reasons. What is the difference? Also, keep in mind that we are discussing the circumstances of Rus people. Ethnic Polish peasants were treated much worse than were Rus peasants, overall, due to geographical and historical circumstances.

You did not address this part of my post:. It seems that only peasants in Galicia were treated as poorly as were those in Poland; most Rus peasants were not. The difference — a much greater degree of freedom. The rent which a serf paid to the landlord is a tax. After paying the taxes the peasant generally had the freedom to live as he wants. But corvee is almost slavery.

The fact that corvee is heavier than the rent — there was no doubt in the centuries. And Ethnic Rus peasants in Polish Kingdom were treated much worse than were treated Ethnic Rus peasants in Moscow Tsardom, overall, due to geographical and historical circumstances. In the 16th and 17th centuries there were three distinct serfdom belts in Ukrainian territories….

The same applies to the Moscow Tsardom. Perhaps the system corvee in the West Russian lands were less severe than in the true Poland. However, the system corvee in the West Russian lands were predominant. Link is not working. Ie many nobles knew the Tatar language as a foreign language.

Tatar language never was the native language of Russian aristocrats. It depends on the size of the tax. So almost half the year, physicians are just working for the government of course they make enough the rest of the year to live very well. Ocherki iz istorii krepostnogo prava v Rossii Kharkiv Franko, I. Kyiv Blum, J. However I would like to see the arguments on the issues of the discussion.

On my computer this link encyclopediaofukraine does not work. Write what is in this publication you consider noteworthy. A form of peasant servitude and dependence on the upper landowning classes that was characteristic of the feudal system and existed in different parts of Europe from the medieval period to the 19th century.

The degree of subservience and the prevalence of the serf-lord relation differed with time and country according to natural, economic, social, and political conditions. In Ukraine serfdom developed first in the territories ruled by Poland. Under the Polish system of serfdom the peasants were bound by law to their plots of land, which were owned by the lord.

The Russian system of serfdom, which was established in most Ukrainian territories under Russian rule at the end of the 18th century, was based on the principle that the lord owned the peasant under his control. He could dispose of his serfs as he wished: The amount of labor owed by the peasants and the size of their allotments depended on the number of adult males in their families.

The bulk of the peasants lived on their own land and paid tribute in kind or money to the ruling prince. The free pokhozhi peasants sometimes had to provide unpaid labor for the construction of fortifications and roads and in emergencies were called to bear arms in a levy en masse.

As Polish rule spread throughout Ukraine in the second half of the 15th and in the 16th centuries, the position of the peasantry in Ukrainian territories changed radically. In Poland alodial land ownership was already an established privilege of the ruling class. The nobility had been exempted from any form of conditional feudal land tenure, and the peasants had been deprived of their former rights to land.

To equalize the obligations of the different categories of peasant, the voloka land reform was introduced in in Ukrainian territories and was implemented gradually over the next century. Polish nobles set up filvarky on the better lands and began to specialize in grain farming for export see Filvarok. Finally, the amount of labor owed by the serfs and all other matters affecting them were left to the decision of the nobles, their tenants, or their stewards.

A uniform system of serf obligations and relations was maintained on the royal estates, where serfs received better treatment than on the private estates of the nobility. The obligations imposed on the serfs rose steeply in cases where a tenant, not the landowner, managed the estate. Although the plots of the serfs gradually shrank, their obligations were not lowered. In , 58 percent of the peasant farms in Galicia consisted of more than a half field pivlan. By only 38 percent were of that size, by only 16 percent, and by only 11 percent. At the end of the 16th century the typical serf allotment was a half field.

Almost 41 percent of the serf plots were of that size, and 24 percent were a quarter field. The smaller ones were called poiedynky single.

Those conditions contributed to the Cossack-Polish War. The peasantry participated in the war on a mass scale. Some of the peasant combatants joined the Cossack ranks and along with new Cossacks from the other estates demanded open access to land and other Cossack privileges. Former serfs who failed to gain admission to the Cossack estate first took possession of free lands in the liberated territories.

Want to add to the discussion?

But in their universals Bohdan Khmelnytsky and his successors called upon former serfs to return in certain cases to the service of the monasteries and the nobles who recognized the Cossack state. Generally, peasant obligations in the Hetman state during the second half of the 17th and the beginning of the 18th century were light. The Cossack starshyna, who received rank estates, demanded labor from their subjects. Most of them settled as landless peasants on the estates of the Cossack starshyna or monasteries.

Gradually the peasants in Hetman Ukraine lost the right to dispose of their land and, eventually, their freedom as well. In the s the pospolyti could still move from one landowner to another but had to leave their property land and inventory behind. The Cossack officers and monasteries made every effort to attach the peasants to the land, and the process was reinforced by the Russian government, which was interested in extending the imperial serf system to Ukraine.

By the decree of 3 May Catherine II introduced the Russian serf system in the territory of the former Hetman state, and in the Cossack starshyna received the rights of the Russian nobility. According to official estimates made in , 60 percent of the serfs belonged to landowners, and 40 percent lived on state or appanage lands. State peasants usually paid quitrent. The norm urochna system of labor was widely adopted. In it clarified some aspects of the serf-lord relationship. Those and other manifestos were largely ignored by the landowners. Infringement of the regulations was punishable by military court, yet the position of the serfs hardly changed.

However, the lack of a Royal terror, successfully compensated by the aristocratic terror. For example, Prince Andrei Kurbsky fled from the Russian state to Poland, where he obtained possession of the land. In his possessions and near them Kurbsky killed, kidnapped, robbed people, tortured people in dungeons of his castle, etc.

The Central government the representatives of which were the same thugs as Kurbsky was powerless to stop Kurbsky. Therefore, under the Kovel again and again shots were fired, blood was spilled. On August 7 Kurbsky estate was attacked by a detachment, consisting of servants, retinue nobles and peasants under the command of Vishnevetsky. Villages Paryduby and Sealice was captured and cattle belonged to the peasants stolen. Kurbsky servants, sent to intercede for the peasants were beaten, and several of them — the Yakima Nevzorov, Elisha, Lesnevich, perhaps someone else — killed. Vishnevetsky also abducted four citizens of Kovel, whose fate was unknown.

August 8 a squad of servants of Kurbsky attacked the estate of Vyshnevetsky, dispersed farmers, collecting compressed bread. Servants Kurbsky took 16 stacks and sheaves of corn. As emphasized by the biographer of Prince Kurbsky, his life was the normal life of the Polish landlord. We know… what you have in Poland, the strongest oppress the weak, the strong could take from weak property and to kill him , and because of your law, weak have to seek justice many years before [the case] will be completed and possibly will never end.

It looks like the number killed was no more than double digits. Only in were serfs banned from ever moving. But they were restricted from doing so more than hundred years earlier. Volhynia was the furthest west of Rus lands. As the article described, serfdom in many of the Rus lands within the Commonwealth was much milder.

In some areas near the frontier, peasants had zero obligations for years, and then the obligations were light. So in most Rus lands within the Commonwealth of the 17th century, the situation of the peasants was not worse than under Moscow. It may even have been better. Only in Volynia and Galicia it was worse and in Poland, though were comparing Rus peoples, not Poles. In the 18th century much of Ukraine that had been part of the Commonwealth had become part of the Hetman State under Russia, basically fully autonomous until and then partially autonomous until Catherine II abolished this autonomy.

If this area had not been part of the Commonwealth in the first place it would not have been a Hetmanate later. The Unz Review - Mobile. An Alternative Media Selection. All None Exclude Blogs. Teasers Russian Reaction Blog. The translator took the liberty of making the text more accesible to readers not possessing an in-depth knowledge of Russian history.

All names were rendered in their full form, and mentions of most Russian historical figures come with birth and death years for easier reference. Only names, events, etc. So were several allusions to historical events known to every educated Russian but obscure in the West. Related Pieces by Author Egor Kholmogorov: Show Comments Leave a Comment. September 7, at 5: Sean What makes you think so? September 7, at 6: A relatively rare example of the Russian "svidomizm".

It is possible to find more interesting examples of "true Russian history" http: Explore just one example. Ivar, envoy of Igor', Great Prince of Rus', and the general envoys as follows: And the whole entire text of Kolmogorov consists of such fraud.

September 7, at 7: He also forgets to mention that the "russian lands" means everything under the skies, from Warsaw to Kurils, from Finland to Istanbul and Persia. Here are some quotes from a site www. They formed an egalitarian society with Slavic as a common language September 7, at 8: Stopped taking the article serious at this point. I assume this part: The reception of the Mongol invasion remains mostly traditional a terrible catastrophe that did lasting historical damage and held Russia back for years , with creeping "politically correct" revisionism of the Mongol yoke as a positive period mostly to placate Tatars, Kazakhs, etc.

As a German reader, what can say on what the author says about Russia's role in early German nationalism? It is "friendship and cooperation" the ideas of Lev Gumilev, clearly pseudoscientific " Gumilev was more of a poet, like his parents Nikolai Gumilev and Anna Akhmatova, than he was a scholar.

There is no "general view ". If people can generally just learn not to step on each other's toes, maybe the world really would be a better place. Kamran Simply that nationalism is a reaction to attacks on community A defined by ethnicity, religion, race, or social class by community B defined likewise. September 7, at 9: Not sure if it will be interest, - but lot of is encoded in language itself. For information about Slavic languages I would recommend: Bucaramanga I am at a loss how the fact that the rise of Russia much like that of any other nation wasn't all fluff ponies and cotton candy contradicts the argument of the article.

Kholmogorov manipulates the facts, but what you write is an outright lie He elides that Muscovy rose to power as the knut of the mongol khans, collecting the tribute and punishing rebels for them from other russians. In addition, Circassians if they obey Russia have to become subjects to an infidel ruler, to abandon their way of life an important part of which was hiking to capture slaves http: Besides, were the order of the Sultan who was also Caliph - the ruler of the faithful Abdul-Aziz addressed the Circassians: The Turkish government promised the Circassians, who resettled in Turkey all sorts of benefits As a result most of the Circassians chose resettlement in the Ottoman Empire that naturally pleased the Russian officials.

Even worse for the Circassians after arriving in Turkey - the Sultan's promises proved false, and Circassians in the quarantine camps were massively dying of diseases and starvation as well as fled back to the Russian Empire. How many died could not be assessed, but the majority of the dead died in Turkey and Russia bear for it only indirectly blame These actions of the Russian government against the Circassians can be considered as analogous of the forced resettlement of the Comanches and Apaches in the reservation.

Because "Russes" centuries, clearly were not modern Russian. Russian medieval Chronicles clearly write about it " in The Varangians from beyond the sea imposed tribute upon the Chuds, the Slavs, the Merians, the Ves', and the Krivichians. The Chuds, the Slavs, the Krivichians, and the Ves' then said to the people of Rus', "Our land is great and rich, but there is no order in it. On account of these Varangians, the district of Novgorod became known as the land of Rus' ".

National and ethnic identities are constantly shifting and you can't claim that some identity is X years old because some word has been used for X years since words shift meaning and get swapped between groups. Rus was also sort of a Finnic self-appellation for Western subgroups of what are now called ethnic Finns but then it included the idea that we're a group together with what others call Swedes. That ended, ironically enough, when imperial Russia annexed us to impose on us a national identity project where a bunch of people who called themselves Rus-people since the middle ages were told to drop the name and adapt to this "Finn" abomination instead.

September 7, at Interesting piece, even though I don't find all of its claims persuasive, there does seem to be quite a lot of myth-making and very selective presentation of facts in it. What's the general view of the Mongol invasion in Russia today? On the other hand I don't think German nationalism can be considered to have come into existence only in the early 19th century, in some form it must be traced back at least to the late middle ages or the early modern era, e. German humanists in the early 16th century were very nationalistic, anti-French and began the cult around Tacitus' Germania as supposed evidence for ancient Germanic virtues.

Besides such scholarly discussion, I'm also interested in how the Mongol invasions are judged today in Russia, including at the level of popular culture. September 8, at Hack Halpern's book provides for an in depth historic response to many of your questions regarding the footprint left behind by the Golden Horde. Along with the name "Muscovy" itself.

September 8, at 1: Thanks for the book recommendation, that seems quite interesting, I'll look at it. Here "yarlyk" that is, the confirmation of the right to a fief, in exchange for submission to the Tatar Khan and the payment of tribute of Khan of the Golden Horde Tokhtamysh to the great Lithuanian Prince and Polish king Jagiello in http: September 8, at 2: September 8, at 3: Can we stop exaggerating all those mythical "powers" of all kinds of contemporary Soviet literature books which became so popular in the West?

Moscow-Leningrad's and other urban what they loved to call themselves intelligentsia's in reality pretentious ignoramuses reaction or fascination with all kinds of Samizdat and "dissident" literature didn't and doesn't mean a genuine impact. Jazz, Rock-n-roll, generally, Western pop and consumer culture played the role on several orders of magnitude more important in discrediting communist idea than all Soviet "dissidents" combined.

That is what was in demand universally--from Moscow to Vladivostok. September 8, at 4: This statement is your and only your fiction Left unmentioned is that russian nationalism has created the modern concept of ethnic cleansing when they committed the genocide of the Circassians The Circassians resettlement was not genocide. Halpern's book provides for an in depth historic response to many of your questions regarding the footprint left behind by the Golden Horde. Hack it seems logical that Algirdas could have learned that his dominance of Kiev was being challenged, and went to meet the Tatar army, with its Rus'ian allies as indeed Algirdas probably had too that had been dispatched from Podolia, and defeated them on the banks of a river, at a site now lost to history.

The chronicle goes on to state that Algirdas established various relatives as rulers of Podolia, and "put a stop to the payment of tribute to the Tatars", as well as fortifying the cities of the region, something which had been forbidden under the Tatar Yoke. The Golden Horde was not finished, and incidents of occasional tribute paying were to recur again, but essentially the central Ukrainian lands were taken out of Golden Horde's domain, and for many years became part of a wider Lithuanian realm.

September 8, at 5: Mao Cheng Ji says: September 8, at 6: Wizard of Oz "dangerous" yes and probably all the more so when rooted in a distant past because then pretty well mythical but unfalsifiable and proof against mere fact. At worst it is potentially dangerous, just as gasoline is potentially dangerous.

At best, and I suspect in most normal times, nationalism is but the love of one's community, one's language, one's land, one's cultural heritage, and one's inner sense of being. Its lack is what we see in today's globalized world. I'm not aware of any amalgamation of Finns and Swedes that were known as Rus?

Welcome to Reddit,

I am aware of the fact that in the Finnish language of the time, the ethnonym 'Ruotsi' was used to describe a Swede by a Finn. Another perfectly plausible explanation for the term 'Rus' was championed by the eminent 'Russian' historian George Vernadsky: Rurik could've been a Scandinavian, or an Obotrite , or some other kind Western Slav, or even a Celt there are some who argue for this last exotic theory.

The chronicler says that the Rus was a whole separate tribe "like the Danes, or the Swedes, or the Friesians, or the English," and that the the whole tribe came over with Rurik. Ultimately, it doesn't matter who the Rus were. They adopted the name Rus almost immediately, so it came to mean the whole people, not just the original Rurik's tribe. September 8, at 7: AP It becomes ridiculous when one applies the modern meaning to those people before they were assimilated.

September 8, at 8: Anon Doctor Zhivago barely registers on a scale of true interests and concerns of people. Yeah, Doc Zhivago probably had more impact in the West, especially with Lean's blockbuster movie. But I'm not sure Pop Culture's role was that important. Also, let's keep in mind that Pop Culture had a destabilizing effect on the West as well.

Russian medieval Chronicles clearly write about it" It could be true. They were assimilated, voluntarily, and they became Slavs, just like the term "Ruse" become Slavic, or Russian, if you will. This four part documentary is worth watching: Pop and consumer culture were immense, together with distillation of the best West's art classics. Watson being accepted by British themselves as the best, and the list goes on and on--all that was huge, precisely because the nation was extremely educated and, actually, life in USSR wasn't that bad--people wanted more.

I am sure Western elites all read Solzhenitsyn as a "historian", I doubt any of them, bar some very few exceptions, finished War and Peace or Road to Calvary. I cannot see neoco0ns doing this--this is like asking devil bathing in holy water. Hack I'm revisiting this great documentary and am on part 2: After the Beatles, the iron curtain was like a wall with holes in it. It's not just a pile of BS - it was true. I was a witness to it myself in ! Thanks for the link, looks like it will be an entertaining movie. After all, China opened up to Western Culture Russia is Western, however on the fringe, nation in its foundation, China is not.

Parbes "Pop and consumer culture were immense The Soviet and especially Russian people destroyed their own powerful, secure, respected country in which life "wasn't bad" at all with their own hands and plunged themselves into a decades-long, disastrous downward spiral which might yet end with their destruction by their enemies , for the sake of trying to "merge and become partners" with the West that was producing this Pop Culture - JUST AS this Pop Culture was already starting to degenerate and was on its way out!

Couldn't they have waited a bit more??? Kamran Apologies for going off-topic, Tolya, but I would just like to ask Andrei something.

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