Contents:
Sign in with Facebook Sign in options. Want to Read saving…. Want to Read Currently Reading Read. Refresh and try again. Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs. If they view the church as an unsafe for them, a place more focused on politics than on people, we just might be raising the most anti-Christian generation America has ever seen, a generation that believes they have to choose between loving and being Christian. The biggest awakening I had from reading this book is that people do NOT become un-gay literally almost never and that Ex-gay ministries boast of success that is not true.
If you are a Christian reading this review, please pick up the book and let it equip you to better love, affirm and care for your gay friends beyond trying to "pray the gay away". Jan 31, Christy rated it really liked it. I remember being told when I was 8, that if anyone brought up homosexuality in my sex ed class, I should use the word "dysfunction" to describe it.
I remember saying "love the sinner, hate the sin" and thinking it was a fair compromise and a loving way to view someone who was gay. This is the way I grew up. As an adult, however, I have encountered actual gay people, ones I love, as well as fellow Christians who aren't offended by their lifestyle. After reading some books that delved into Paul's wo I remember being told when I was 8, that if anyone brought up homosexuality in my sex ed class, I should use the word "dysfunction" to describe it.
After reading some books that delved into Paul's words about homosexuality that poked a decent hole in the doctrine that homosexuality was a sin, black and white, my views have begun to change. Torn has tipped me over the edge. I knew that the modern church has been hostile to gay people, but I didn't realize how bad it was.
Lee puts it well in saying that he doesn't have all the answers, but he is an expert on his own story. I was surprised by how effective just hearing his story was in opening my eyes to what's going on in the modern church, as well as all the ways Christians have failed the gay community. Lee basically tells his life story, but also includes some though provoking analysis of the verses typically used to knock the lifestyle. Best of all, Lee is extremely honest about the struggles of coming out, and he paints an excellent picture of someone who is gay but is also pursuing purity. That's a story that is rarely publicized and I dont know if I'd heard before typically stories involve someone who is both promiscuous and gay.
Lee is very clear that he understands that Christians who oppose homosexuality are doing what they think is right. He is very gracious and we could all learn a lot from him and his approach. Oct 07, Adam Ross rated it it was amazing. A fantastic introduction toward getting past the culture wars approach to this issue, and a great start toward loving your gay neighbors. Justin emphasizes the distinction between orientation and behavior, and moves past misunderstanding to a place of compassion and conviction.
More than anything it is a personal journey, so footnotes are far and few between, but the personal sense of the book allows a small and brief window into the spiritual crisis which fear, mythology, ideology, and misinfor A fantastic introduction toward getting past the culture wars approach to this issue, and a great start toward loving your gay neighbors. More than anything it is a personal journey, so footnotes are far and few between, but the personal sense of the book allows a small and brief window into the spiritual crisis which fear, mythology, ideology, and misinformation in the church put through young people who are gay, unable to "change," and love and want to serve God as best they can.
It seems there are more kids in our pews struggling with this issues than we think, and our own behavior is forcing them to live in fear of their churches. I am not fully convinced by Justin's readings of the biblical passages, but he did show that the issue is more complex than we tend to think, and regardless of whether we think gay Christians should be celibate or can get married, more than ever, calm, compassion, and grace need to be extended to all.
One if the most interesting chapters in the book was the chapter about the ex-gay movement and how the movement has completely failed to change sexual orientation. While ex-gay programs can and do have some success changing behavior, it appears to have utterly failed at reversing gay orientation.
Even gay men now married with children admit their basic orientation has not changed. Jun 02, Ryan Miller rated it it was amazing. Required reading for anyone who has ever openly strived to examine and reconcile faith and sexual orientation. Lee may not come to the same conclusions as you do, but he doesn't ask any readers to come to his conclusions.
He simply and eloquently tells his agonizing story of being a wholehearted, fully committed, strident Christian who can no longer deny that he is gay. Lee offers personal stories and broader descriptions that expose the ex-gay movement as based on a framework of deception and Required reading for anyone who has ever openly strived to examine and reconcile faith and sexual orientation.
Lee offers personal stories and broader descriptions that expose the ex-gay movement as based on a framework of deception and unable to alter anyone's orientation. Lee carefully distinguishes orientation from behavior--two aspects of sexual orientation he believes are normally lumped together by many Christians. He describes in great detail his in-depth biblical studies as he tried to determine how Christ and the Bible guided him first on how to feel about his own attractions, and then on how to live as a gay man.
And he offers his encounters with grace-less fellow followers of Christ, as well as stories of abundant grace. As I mentioned at the top, Lee does not write to convince. He writes to converse. What he wants is to start an open, honest conversation that can acknowledge differing interpretations of scripture and different ideas of how to live a faithful life, but one that acknowledges his experience for what it is--a diligent, faithful journey to reconcile who he is with the faith he retains.
Feb 20, Samantha H rated it really liked it. I enjoyed this book.
I read it because I am so frustrated with the modern church and wanted to educate myself better on how to most effectively rebut the argument that being gay and Christian must be mutuallyexclusive. I am a faithful person but I do not subscribe to many of the teachings of my church, yet I hate the thought of leaving my religion behind because of my disagreements.
The message of the book resonated with me because I also firmly believe that the truest interpretation of Christia I enjoyed this book. The message of the book resonated with me because I also firmly believe that the truest interpretation of Christianity more specifically, following the teachings of Jesus would allow for no exclusion, alienation, or endorse the marginalization of any group.
This book is well written but not expertly written. It is personal, it is heartfelt, it very sincere. It's an important book, and Justin is a good messenger to others given his own personal struggle and plainspoken, logical approach. I felt the ending was abrupt but it is really a memoir.
An important work that all should read. Sep 24, Allison Hurst rated it it was amazing. Resounding, thoughtful, and circumnavigating! This man was preaching, and I hope to hear more graceful dialogue on this in our local and global churches. Aug 22, Erin rated it really liked it Shelves: However, my review is not an apologetic for my viewpoint; it is simply a statement of my response to this book. I hope it will be taken in that way.
I also apologize for all the run-on sentences.
I, myself, expected this book to be just that but opted to read it anyway for my own personal reasons. I was surprised to find that it was not an apologetic at all. In fact he spends more time arguing for the acceptance of and support for those who hold a more conservative view than his, than he does trying to convince the reader that his view is correct.
This book is simply his personal testimony, as well as his plea for the Church to learn to show love to one particularly villainized group of sinners--the LGBT community. The author is a man who grew up in a two-parent Christian home by his biological mother and father, with no divorce, adoption, abuse, or trauma; having plenty of one-on-one time with his father; having a mother who was not overbearing; bonding well with both parents; and whose only goal was to follow and obey Christ.
Like any good unmarried Christian, he was a virgin, he was celibate, he fought temptations and never entertained lust. He makes a point to define "gay" as "being attracted to the same sex" as opposed to "having sex with others of the same sex". IOW, just because a person stops homosexual behavior, it doesn't mean they are "healed" if they are still attracted to the same sex; and to imply otherwise or to use such a situation as "proof" of healing" is dishonest. An important "side" note: I think the author brings up very good points not new, but still relevant about celibacy in the Protestant church.
Celibacy is an extremely difficult path. It can be lonely and disheartening. People gay or straight who believe this is God's call for them need tremendous support from their church families. Unfortunately, they don't get that support. The church often idolizes dating and marriage relationships and we make long-term singles or decided celibates feel like second-class citizens. Most churches don't seem to know how to support a single adult who isn't planning to get married, and we need to learn.
I appreciate the author's honest critique of his exegesis on the relevant scripture passages related to homosexuality Ch. He raises the legitimate, reasoned points from both perspectives, but does not attempt to force anything where it is not clear-cut. Granted, for someone seeking an answer as the author was , it doesn't help with any definitive conclusions; but it does help to offer a means of understanding the "other side's" point of view. Ultimately, I feel that his argument re.
I have believed for a long time that gay sex is a sin. I have believed for a long time that homosexuality is probably most often if not always genetic just as genetics plays a large, but not sole, role in alcoholism. I have believed for a long time that a secular government has no right to deny civil unions, or legal and financial marriage benefits, to committed gay couples. I also have believed for a long time that a person can be both gay and a Christian. I believe this latter point because I do not believe that there are any prerequisites to becoming a Christian, other than believing that Jesus is who He said He is and following Him.
It is Christ and the Spirit Who transforms us, not ourselves. He loves us and grants us admission into His Kingdom "while we were yet sinners"; and it is afterwards, as we travel on this journey with Christ, that we are gradually changed and transformed by His grace and the power of His Spirit. Thus, just like a person can struggle with many things while still being a Christian, a person can also struggle with homosexuality while still being a Christian.
Unless one wants to call the author a flat-out liar, I can't argue with the facts of his personal testimony. His life growing up was similar to mine. Probably even better, in some respects. There is nothing about his testimony that causes me to think "he's not a real Christian". But he happens to find himself gay. And much like the thorn in Paul's side whatever that may have been , God has not seen fit to heal Mr.
Further, correct or incorrect, I can't seem to ignore the question of whether it is people like Mr. If one views homosexuality as a sin, then it seems that it would take a special person for God to place that calling upon. I do not envy him that. So again, ultimately, I feel that his argument re. If the ultimate law of Christ is agape love, the way many Christians talk about gay people and treat them--probably especially gay Christians--is a failure to be the light and witness we are called to be.
One might point out that there are 2 "greatest commandments", love of neighbor and love of God; and that even if love of neighbor argues for allowing gay sex, that love of God would deny it. But if in denying it one neglects to keep loving one's neighbor, are you still also loving God? It's a conundrum for me and I find my thoughts remaining on how that should work out in regards to this issue. I think for me, the answer of whether or not gay sex is a sin is not the important issue. I'm not saying it's a question to be ignored, but answering it doesn't resolve the problems we see today.
First, most of the time the people I personally know arguing that it is not a sin, are arguing from a perspective that says sex outside of marriage is OK. For me, that is never OK whether the couple is gay or straight. So, that makes it a non-argument. If you want to debate with me whether or not gay sex is a sin, you need to focus on committed long-term, life-long relationships. If I were ever to agree that gay sex is a legitimate option for a person committed to living a holy Christian life, I would agree with the author that it should only be within the context of a committed relationship with one other person, the same as for heterosexual Christians.
The whole divorce rate aside, that is still the ideal that Scripture calls us to. But there is one other reason why the "sin" question is not the main issue for me. I find even more weight in the author's discussion on Romans But when there was serious disagreement within the Body of Christ, Paul encouraged people to follow their consciences and allow other believers to do likewise. I believe the situation we're facing today is the latter type.
Perhaps, maybe, possibly, I need to consider whether or not his view might also be a legitimate Christian view. Afterall, I've found myself on the controversial side many a time, and I frequently have found myself defending the legitimacy of my views as "Christian", or even defending my relationship with Jesus as real, because of a particular view that I hold.
That is not evidence that he may be correct; but it is encouragement to not dismiss his relationship with Jesus because of his views. Which also means, I think, that it is encouragement to welcome him, and other gay Christians like him, into Church fellowship, possibly even regardless of whether they are "Side A" gay sex is OK or "Side B" gay sex is not OK and gay Christians should remain celibate.
That is a paradigm shift for me. To talk about Christian views on gay sex in the same way that I might talk about Christian views on "once saved, always saved" or "complimentarianism vs. If I'm honest, I'd say that right now, I'd have an easier time worshipping with celibate gay Christians than with gay Christians in relationships; but that I still can worship with gay Christians in relationships if I remember that they are simply weak, ignorant and sinful followers of Christ, just like me.
Christians have no right to ostracize gay people. We lost that "right" when we refused to ostracize divorced people especially those who remarried while their spouse was alive or non-married couples living together or singles having babies out of wedlock. Because we are the hands and feet God wants to use to show these things to people, and we decided ostracizing them was not the way to do it. So, why is it still "the way" with gay people? That doesn't make sense. The church is full of sinners and I am the worst one.
Who am I to say another person seeking Jesus is "too sinful" to be allowed in? What I do know is that Tony Campolo is awesome see the last two pages of the book , and I will strive to imitate him as he imitates Christ. And I will pray that God's Spirit will teach me how to love the sinner and hate my own sin. But the story [of Job] serves as an important reminder to all of us that sometimes, when people are hurting, they don't need our advice and theological theorizing as much as they need our understanding and comfort.
Bit by bit, I was learning a painful lesson. They might lecture you, talk down to you, or quote the Bible at you, but they weren't very likely to make you feel loved. But all my close friends were Christians. I didn't have anyone else to talk to. He wasn't just saying that I should try to become straight. He was saying it was my fault I was attracted to guys; that I had somehow made it happen; that even if I fought those temptations with every ounce of my being, never lusted in my heart, and never had any kind of sexual or romantic relationship for the rest of my life, I was still sinning just by admitting I was gay--something he acknowledged I might never be able to change.
What sort of messed-up theology was that? And if that was to be the church's message to gay people--"Hey, we know you didn't choose to feel this way, but since you do, you're now in perpetual sin regardless of how you live or what you do"--where was the motivation even to try to live holy lives at all? All humans are ignorant, weak and sinful.
I can still be a Christian even if I am tempted by heterosexual pornography or lust. I can still be a Christian even if I'm rude or mean to those around me. For me, knowing I'm a work in progress but also knowing that God's Spirit can help me change, is a source of hope.
So the question becomes, how would I perceive Hope if I couldn't expect or see those changes? If I was to always BE a particular sin label--how could I possibly respond? And what does the Bible say to that? Real compassion [from Christians toward gays] would mean teaching people how to be more sensitive to the needs of the gay people they encounter and helping them understand our struggles better. He didn't want to be gay--he had the "wanting" part covered; but just like someone dealing with anger issues, there is still the day-to-day reality.
How can Christians learn a better way? Christians have learned to become "comfortable" about many sinful subjects adultery, divorce, hate, pride, racism, etc. It was hard for me to square my experience of Christians before coming out with my experience of Christians after coming out. My interactions with Warren, Claire, and those like them felt anything but loving.
If this had been my first exposure to Christianity, I would have wanted nothing to do with it. Mark [the speaker] invited me to sit at a private table with him. As we ate, he grilled me on every aspect of my childhood. Every detail was a potential cause of my gay feelings.
At one point, he asked which denomination I'd grown up in. I thought about how my Southern Baptist friends would respond to the suggestion that their entire denomination was making people gay. Even Mark didn't seem to buy that one, in spite of the fact that he had come up with it. File this under "People say the stupidest things". In an old series of Miller Lite beer commercials, two beer drinkers both Miller Lite fans, naturally would break out into an argument or even a fistfight over whether the beer was preferred because it "tastes great" or is "less filling.
Sometimes when I look at the church today, I feel like I'm living in that commercial. But there shouldn't be a clash between "God's Truth" and "more loving. You can't have one without the other. God's Truth is all about God's Love for us and the Love we ought to have for one another. We are being untrue to that Truth if we treat people unlovingly.
And we are missing out on the full extent of that Love if we try to divorce it from Ultimate Truth. We Christians must work to repair this schism in the church. If the church is to survive much longer in our culture, it must teach and model the Christianity of Jesus--a faith that combines Truth and Love in the person of Jesus Christ, revealed to us in the Bible and lived out in the everyday lives of his followers.
That is what we say we believe. It's time we start acting like it. Indeed, many people I know walked away from the faith for that very reason. I couldn't do that. I had known God's presence in my life from a young age, and I couldn't turn my back on that. Nor did those negative messages make me straight.
I don't believe they've ever made anyone straight; all they've done is give people a reason to lie in order to fit in. I refused to lie. What the messages did do was make me hate myself. Christian makes people feel required to pick sides: Yes, there were gay Christians on campus.
They were all over. But they had grown up, like me, seeing "Gays vs. Chrsitians" as the only option. You had to pick one or the other, and whichever one you didn't pick had to be squelched or hidden or forgotten. What a horrible choice: Would you be a good person, or be an honest person? Deny what you believe about God, or deny what you know about yourself? Condemn yourself to a lifetime of faking it, or condemn yourself to an eternity in hell? The law was put in charge to lead us to Christ to paraphrase Paul , not to transform people.
It is Christ and His Spirit that transforms people. If our use of the law is keeping people from Christ, we're doing something very wrong. Whether I was right or wrong in my interpretation of Scripture about gay marriage, one thing was clear: We Christians were failing to show grace to the gay community the way Jesus would.
I was sure most Christians were under the impression that they were extending grace. Nevertheless, even I as a fellow Christian was experiencing grace from them only rarely. If I, who was actively seeking grace from the church, wasn't finding it, then it almost certainly wasn't being felt by those gay people who had turned their backs on the church. Seven things the author believes we must focus on: Christians must show more grace, especially in the midst of disagreement. We must educate Christians. We must move away from an "ex-gay" approach.
Celibacy must be a viable option. We must shatter the myth that the Bible is Anti-Gay. It is not necessary to dilute or throw out the Bible in order to have a loving, welcoming approach to gay people. Openly gay Christians must find their place throughout the Church. We must learn how to effectively dialogue. If you are a Christian and you struggle with how to love people who are gay, read this book. If you are not Christian and you want to understand more about the divide in this issue, read this book. Basically, I think this is a super important book for the climate of us vs.
Justin Lee writes about his story of being a gay Christian, but also how to move forward from homosexuality being a debate topic to being about how to love others. Lee has a nice writing style: When I sat down to read this, I had intended on just reading the first chapter, but I was hooked and read on until way too late in the night. Regardless of where you stand in this battleground, Lee shows you a compassionate way forward. I thought his exegesis there was displayed thoughtfully and clearly no theology degree required. His chapter on looking through the Bible as a whole is also just a good way to read the Bible in general, but is also very convincing in showing us the way forward: I also appreciate the last chapter that gives very specific guidelines for Christians on how we can help gay Christians, no matter if you are Side A or Side B.
Required reading for all Christians. Nov 15, Emily rated it really liked it Shelves: Justin Lee was raised a devout Southern Baptist, known as "God Boy" by peers at school, and interested in pursuing a career in ministry. Yet he harbored a secret shame: Now, his goal in life is to foster honest, compassionate dialogue between Justin Lee was raised a devout Southern Baptist, known as "God Boy" by peers at school, and interested in pursuing a career in ministry.
Now, his goal in life is to foster honest, compassionate dialogue between straight Christians and queer people and especially queer Christians. In many ways, his experiences echoed mine. I look back and cringe on the times I sincerely said, "Hate the sin, love the sinner", and how insufferably self-righteous I was in high school.
I especially related to this quote: I avoided ["locker room"] conversations, telling myself that the reason I didn't lust after women was that I was a good Christian boy. Lust was a sin, so I convinced myself I just didn't objectify women the way some of my friends did. That wouldn't have been Christlike, after all. I also know what it's like to have really fond memories of growing up in the church, to love and want to serve Jesus Christ, and to have two really lovely parents who though we disagree on some things I have never doubted love me and love people-- this is what makes it hard to completely break away from the church.
But when the church claims that who you are at your core is sinful, what else is there to do? Well, tell the church they're wrong, of course. What Lee's story really has going for it is that his youth was fairly unobjectionable to most Christians. He was outspokenly religious, raised by wonderful Christian parents, never experimented with alcohol or drugs, earned good grades, and was saving himself for marriage.
He even had a chaste relationship with a good Christian girl in high school. The only thing "wrong" was that he experienced attraction to boys. Even that, though, he dealt with as a young man in the Christian-approved manner: Though a "spotless record" doesn't mean he's more deserving of compassion and understanding than anyone else, unfortunately this will matter to a lot of Christians who read this book, and hopefully help them be more open to listening and learning.
However, none of Lee's earnestness changed the way he felt about boys, nor made him feel something different for girls. No matter what he did, he was still gay. So he began to wonder, is this really what God wanted for him: That's when he began to dive into research on what the Bible has to say about homosexuality. His research process is certainly worth reading in its entirety, but the eventual conclusions he draws are: Although most of Lee's conclusions weren't new to me, and oftentimes line up with my own, I really appreciated his take on Sodom in particular.
While I, too, as most sensible people should, imo interpret the city's sin to be violent inhospitality rather than homosexuality, Lee framed that interpretation in a new way that really struck me. These are cities that say to outsiders: You're not welcome here! We don't want your kind here! Sadly a generation of people have grown being taught that being Gay is a culture choice and only a culture choice.
If only they would be good little people and go heterosexual — naughty children that they are. I do believe that there is some truth in the proposition that some people are born same-sex orientated. There by the grace of God. To those who insist that being gay is a choice, I ask: When did you choose to be straight? Some did, admittedly, but the vast majority of straights were born straight and can no more choose to be gay than a gay person can choose to be straight.
Some of us are somewhere in between: One thing we know with certainty: Jesus does not approve of hypocrisy. Far better, then, to be true to who you are than to live a lie … and as I said earlier, the truth will indeed set you free. That really struck a cord with me. On the other hand, I find it difficult to believe that marriage between a man and a woman is a gift that God has cordoned off for the cool kids.
The church never put me off homosexuality. I get on great with my gay friends their much better than the boring oh-so-hetero cook kids! About two thirds of the way through she runs into her ex-girlfriend who is married and now pregnant and pushing a pram. Or are you only comfortable with the cleaned up middle class, gay marriage, nice house version with all the awkward questions pushed to one side.
The problem with the church is that it lumps the whole subject in with other cultural choices — like moving in with your girlfriend. It completely misses the whole point that this is an identity issue. Thank you Gillan for another sensitively handled and helpful post.
Consequently, all of that would have a logical impact upon my own personal life, as follows:. In view of that claim, am I to assume my own full repentance and acceptance of Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour was never ever really necessary? Was I misled into doing that and in getting baptised? Oh, Richard, what a wonderful question. I am one of those queers.
Do what you think is right, but do not assume it is also right for me. Again the broad and narrow way. You presumably think that the narrow way is your precise way of following Jesus, with your understandings of the Bible, and perhaps a wee bit of extra wriggle room for Evangelicals who do not believe exactly what you believe but not much, as it is a narrow way. But for me, the broad way is the way of trying to conform to the norm, the narrow way is that way which is perfectly, idiosyncratically, my own.
God made me this way for a purpose. And- Stop making sense!! Logic like that makes a mockery of Gospel. The sense it makes is not a narrow logical sense. It would be marvellous for you, too, to know and be blessed by that. I want to understand why God would lead any of us along a path that is perfectly, idiosyncratically our own? Would God be leading us at all if this was true?
Well, each hair on your head is numbered, and God cares for the sparrows. We observe that human beings are very different, and for example Myers Briggs shows how varied we can be. It must be that God has some purpose having humanity so varied. Remember the Bed of Procrustes, who forced people to lie on his bed and either stretched them or cut them to fit?
Jesus is not like that. Jesus has a purpose for one person being sensible, another being fey. I can do sensible rational argument, but would far rather do creative playfulness. We cannot occupy the same body or share the exact same set of experiences. But what does this tell us about God and his purpose for us? And those who rebel against him — are they not also perfectly, idiosyncratically, their own? These questions begin to seem rhetorical, but how do you avoid being deceived? I think we agree on the fruit of the Spirit. It is when we discuss the acts of the flesh echoed in Romans 1 that we part company.
The scriptures never banned same sex love. The Church never banned same sex love. What is banned same sex sex. What good fruit is coming out of the life of that bann? Excellent questions Joe, and pardon me for coming in here, but these are always such an exciting part of being in Christ. May I too briefly answer your Q and hopefully bring some clarity? When we listen to Jesus and allow Him to lead, we move into the purposeful destiny He has for each of His Spirit-filled children — ie.
No more dull days when we realise our identity as individiuals in Him. All part of the mystery of creation to which scripture brings revelation through Holy Spirit. Just as many men, eg. Spaniards, are named Jesus, so too unclean spirits will take that name and attempt to deceive us as being the Christ. Such imposters are dismissed by the real Jesus who — unlike them — came in the flesh and reveals Himself exactly as in the Bible, or revealed word of God.
Simply because He is the Living Word of God — utterly and truly awesome. We then KNOW the difference!
Upon what basis do you equate same-sex relationships with occultism, Richard? Your logic is seriously skewed, to put it mildly…. Your own logic has missed the point, to put it bluntly…. Whether you disagree with them or not is immaterial in this instance. No matter what form our own falling short of the glory of God Romans 3: Theft, murder, idolatry, sorcery, sexual immorality are merely part of the whole gamut of sins.
To be logically fair and non-discriminatory, anyone who considers same-sexual activity as not being sinful should — therefore — unequivocally claim the same for every other sinful activity, eg. Albeit a mistaken supposition, such a conclusion is logically consistent, is it not?