Contents:
Comment bang, fell, fetter, fink, last latte for coffee, even though it is Italian. Comment anger, born, email, fade, fee, first, fond, fund, hall, hub, kitten, list, lose, mitten, same, span, stern, summer, taste, tor. Comment tat, these, fort? Comment bog, log, rang And how about the other word for a gorse bush, furze? If I remember correctly; I won't comment on the German word. Comment fern, fast, fasten, happen, mark, rock, sure, tick, turner, wade.
Comment Klosett - closet?! Comment I don't know who's having more fun: Comment barren, turner, colt? Comment am, an, bad, base, fug, gar, grind, hob, lade, liege, links, lob, not, spare. Comment stark with the help of http: Comment muster, salve, spat, spring, stock, wort. Comment link "Das ist aber link! Comment spurt, falter, heller. Comment boot, leer, nut. And coming down the home stretch, the crowd is on its feet as the athletes enter the stadium! What an exciting finish, folks!
These athletes are really going all-out, giving it every word they have, what an effort--let's have a round of applause! Here's the complete, unedited list so far, for your pleasure and to make it easier to see if a word's been mentioned or not. More are always welcome! It's the first time I'm the first in anything Zuerst hatte ich Schwierigkeiten mit "gar" hab ich inzwischen in meinem 2-Pfund schweren Webster's Dictionary gefunden , und "mag" - bis mir "girly mag" eingefallen ist.
Hier ist meine Liste: Noch ein lustige Beobachtung zum Thema "Falsche Feinde": Comment Found two more: Comment wetter, pike, ruck, brat, just. Comment fester, gilt, hag, hart, lunge, lurch, regal, stuck, tang. Comment trunk The German version is rather old fashioned, but still in use: Comment main German side is a river, not sure if this counts. Comment lack And for easier reference, the words given by Mirko in the thread about false friends that I consider false enemies instead: Comment wart Wo wart ihr gestern?
Comment Hamburger as in opposite of Hamburgerin , stand, strafe, hummer as in one who hums - I'm digging deep now - that is the problem with reponding so late! Fries Gang Glut Heck. Comment wand, tot, lag. A note about accents, since Sue raised it: In the most recent entries, there were two duplicates, and a few entries which may be more "Falsche Freunde" than Feinde. I've removed the duplicates but except for that, here's the complete uncensored list of words as it now stands: So, keep 'em coming! Comment It's funny, I start looking through every text I'm reading to find these enemies: Comment lager, loch, locker, lump.
Yes, I am working my way through the dictionary! Work is so much fun! Comment I noticed there's no "Q" in the list yet, so you better enter "Qualm" as well. Comment natter, pest false friend? Comment wie sieht's aus mit: Comment It's OK, chrissiek, because an ass is also an animal like a donkey, not only a North American word for the posterior Anyway, I have a couple more: Comment Probe, dies Peter: Will you let us know when we've got'em all? Comment They keep coming up: Comment They keep creeping up: Comment funny, all those words!
Comment speck, wink I think I'm out Comment well, i think i found another one Comment And a false friend: Comment as - As duck - duck "Duck Dich! Comment guck - der Glibber guck! Comment lore - Wissen, Kunde Comment not sure if friend or enemy, a little special: Comment hab' auch noch ein paar: Comment How many do we have by now? These don't seem to have been mentioned yet: Comment Since we've already had a few rivers: Ton Halbton unter "h" , engl.
Comment Every time I think we've got all of 'em, you guys continue to amaze me and come up with more! This time we had 7 duplicates within this group of additions since the last sort dies, lass, leg, lore, male, pest, wink and 3 duplicates of words already in the last sorted list lager, mode, most for a total of 81 unique contributions.
Contributors since last sort: I won't know when we've got them all, I don't think anyone's ever compiled this list before! Maybe when Sue, who's working her way through the dictionary, gets to 'Z'! We're up to now! Reinhard II, Sue, Dirk and others: Thanks for the 'Q' words, weirdo and Sue, and david. I won't worry too much about whether they're friends or enemies for now; if you're sure they're only friends then maybe better not to put them here, but if you're not sure, or if they're both, go ahead and list them. The complete list now stands at uncensored words: Comment Here are some contributions to the in meantime quite impressive list: Frauenname ; befall; gaby engl.
Frauenname gage; flatter deutsch: Comment haste, sud, such, teil, pack, tun, smoking, pump, welch, wen, werf, alm. If somebody in the United States nowadays tells you with a firm uncompromising voice "No smoking, please", you better refrain from puffing up his apartment with tobacco clouds. On the other hand, if you receive an invitation to a party in Germany, saying "No smoking necessary", then you might come as you please.
Provided it looks somehow decent of course. No formal wear required. I guess, man rather sollte zwei languages nicht durcheinanderputten Sicherlich nicht fehlerfrei, aber zumindest hilfreich IMHO. Comment When river names are o. I know a nice example: You can't image the giggles that the 'Diet of Worms' produced in history class in high school Anyway new words, including some dialect in both languages, some bad slang, and some 'scrabble words': Abo is slang for Australian Aborigine, is derogitive, never use it!
Comment behalf, bitten, form, bunt, butt. Comment lad, sag, half, grub. Comment I don't want to spoil the party, but following our rules, I am afraid, we have to eliminate several words from the list, because they have the same origin. Those are really not more than "ordinary" False Friends. I agree with you that artist and cafeteria don't belong here, but the others definitely do. Comment False false enemies? Sylvester is right - this party is a lot of fun, but what exactly are the rules of the game? It seems that some of the party guests e. They are at the wrong party, and should go to the "False Friends" party instead which is right next door at http: What exactly are "Falsche Feinde", and what are "Falsche Freunde"?
Let's look at the definitions given to us by Peter Czukor, the founder of this amazing discussion thread. You find a German and an English word that have the same spelling. If they are cognates i. If, on the other hand, they derive from different ancestors, they are considered "Falsche Feinde". That seems to be a simple enough rule. The catch, of course, is: Who decides whether there is common ancestry or not? Since DNA testing for words has not yet been invented, we need to turn to our Etymology Dictionaries of which I always keep a few around - you never know when you need them.
I spent an entertaining hour looking up various words from this thread and yes, I do have a life. Consider the case of "gift" - which at first glance seems like the perfect "false friend". But English "gift" and German "Gift" do go back to the same Germanic root "gift", meaning "something that has been given". German "Gift" underwent a negative pejorative shift in meaning, whereas the English "gift" turned our more positive "mejorative", not sure whether that's actually a word.
Here are some more words found in this thread that have a common Germanic ancestor: Add to that the supposed "Falsche Freunde" where English words are borrowed directly from German: And the reverse list German borrowing from English: It turns out that more than 10 percent of all "Falsche Feinde" in this thread are cognates, and are therefore according to Peter's rule false "false enemies", Two more interesting examples of false false enemies false enemies that should be in the false friends department: French "plat" goes back to middle Latin "plattus", and so does German "Platte".
If it is the question "Where to draw the line? It's a real "false friend", like GIFT. Comment Another interesting case: Don't have an etymological dictionary around to see if they derive from the same roots. Comment About the definition of False Enemies: Thanks for all the great comments. I have a precise definition prepared for you which should resolve all of the questions that have been raised, but I'm getting errors each time I've tried to submit it.
I've saved it locally, and will retransmit it when this problem is resolved. Comment spinner - unless somebody shall dare to claim that these are cognates. Comment Of course they are, dear native speaker. English "spinner" is derived from spin as in "spin goat's hair into wool".
German "Spinner" is derived from "spinnen", which has the same meaning, and is a cognate, one hundred percent. The meaning of "Spinner" as in Verrueckter goes back to "jemand spinnt Gedanken", d. Comment Something which turned up in another query: Comment Hans,you have shot me down,but how about this one: What can you do with that? Comment What about the word bob? Comment native speaker a few posts above: Comment There seems to be a size limit on comments now, which is why I couldn't post before.
Unfortunately my comments are too long to post now due to this size limit. I'll try to add what I can in bits and pieces. Comment Interesting comments, Hans, and thanks for bringing them up. You're right, a certain percentage of the words offered here are indeed cognates, and so are not really false enemies. One reason I didn't want to get involved in that discussion before this point is that for some words it's debatable which category they fall into, and for others my German is simply not good enough and I don't have a German etymological dictionary handy.
Plus, we could end up with endless side discussions or quibbles about this or that word, which would divert energy from the central point which is to concentrate on finding more new ones. Which is not to discourage anyone from pointing out that certain words don't belong according to the definition, as some have appropriately done, I'm just less competent to do so.
Comment Nevertheless, since as you point out there is an increasing number of questionable entries I would just like to make a few points about what belongs and what doesn't. You're right to go back to the original definition, and your paraphrase of it is a good one. The original definition is not arbitrary--as I alluded originally there is a serious purpose also to be served, though I admit that for me that is secondary to the fun I am having here reading all the responses and getting involved.
Comment Be that as it may, some additional comments to clarify the definition, beyond what has already been said, may be in order. To respond to those asking questions about capitalization and umlauts: You can also respell the umlaut using the -e- convention is there a German word for this? German "Zzxuex" but note: Comment So if I had to restate the rules very precisely, it would go like this: Characters are usually just letters: A-Z, but if a word requires a hyphen, then that occupies a character position all by itself it is not an "accented character" and so there must be a hyphen in both G and E.
The words must not be cognates--their origin must be different. They "accidentally" have the same spelling. These are true false enemies. A surprising to me example is "Gift" which I always thought to be accidental cognates, but it turns out they have a common origin so they must be considered "false friends" and not false enemies, and so do not belong here. This isn't really a rule, but a clarification about respelling of German words with certain letters: Comment I don't want to get into the rules for false friends here, they could well be different.
If the English word were spelled this way, it would still not be a false enemy because it would fail the common origin test. Whether this word is acceptable as a false friend is another question in my opinion, yes it is. As several have pointed out, there is a separate forum for the "False friends"--and False Friends are much more important to the language learner, where "false enemies" are merely a curiosity to the learner. Comment About place names: They are words, people understand them, and use them to communicate. They simply must adhere to the rules of the definition, like any other word.
What about words with two separate meanings, where one of them is a cognate but the other isn't? These words are acceptable. I don't know if "Arm" is a good example because I'm not sure of the German etymology, but if "arm" poor is not etymologically related to "Arm" body part then it is a valid False Enemy because we can choose G. Comment So, I hope this has helped to refocus on what exactly is a "False Enemy".
Yes, maybe "real enemy" would've been a better name, but then we would've lost the amusing alliteration as well as stealing some of the limelight and recognition value from "false friends"! Here's a short version of the definition to test your word: Identical spelling letter for letter, ignoring umlauts, accents and capital letters on both sides; no common derivation. Thanks for all the great comments, and hope this helps! Comment Whew, what an ordeal! I'll keep my comments short next time, but I don't know if I'll be able to post the entire sorted list anymore, at least not all in one message.
Claudia thanks for all the great posts, but watch the definition: An understandable confusion, in the absence of the precise definition; hopefully it'll be easier now for everyone to distinguish between what is and isn't a Falsche Feinde. Comment An Amelie Beitrag vom Juli Deutsch -bold ist verwandt mit dem englischen bold. Das englische Wort hat diese Bedeutung bewahrt. Das deutsche -bold ist "verkommen" zu einem Suffix in Rauf-, Trunk-, oder Witzbold. The total number so far is !! H - Q hag, half, hall, Hamburger, handy, hang, happen, hart, haste, hasten, hat, heck, heft, held, hell, heller, helm, her, herb, herd, herd, hob, hold, hole, horst, hose, hub, hummer, hut, Inn, ire, island, jag, jammer, just, kerb, kind, kipper, kitten, lab, labor, lack, lad, lade, laden, lag, lager, lake, lass, last, latte, leer, leg, lest, lied, liege, limo, link, links, list, lob, lobe, loch, locker, log, lore, lose, lot, lump, lunge, lurch, mach, Made, mag, main, male, man, mantel, mark, mark, mass, maul, met, minder, mine, mist, mitten, mode, mole, moll, moos, moose, moped, mops, most, mull, Murks, muss, muster, mutter, natter, nett, nix, not, Note, null, nun, nut, old-timer, pack, page, pate, pest, pike, plane, Platte, plump, Po, police, pope, posse, post, pro, Probe, promotion, provision, puff, pulli, pummel, pump, pup, pups, quake.
R - Z including a few Q's that should have been in the previous post Qualm, quark, quell, queue, quote, racker, rad, rain, rand, rang, range, raps, rat, regal, reif, rein, rest, riff, rind, ring, rock, roman, rose, rot, rote, routine, ruck, sack, sag, sage, salve, same, schmuck, see, sense, siege, singe, smoking, smoking, sold, sole, span, spanner, spare, spat, speck, spiel, spinner, spleen, spree, spring, spur, spurt, stab, stand, star, stark, stern, stile, stock, store, strafe, strand, stuck, such, sud, summer, sure, Tag, talk, tang, tank, taste, tat, tee, teil, Teller, these, tick, tier, toll, Ton, tor, tot, tote, traps, tripper, trunk, tun, turn, turner, wade, wage, walker, wall, wand, war, ward, wart, was, web, welch, welt, wen, werf, wetten, wetter, wider, will, wink, Worms, wort.
Comment OK, really there are only entries in the list, I did not remove the duplicates!! Here I have some: And what english word is "kater"??? Comment Bilge ist auch deutsch, steht sogar im Leo. Ich hoffe, habe es wieder gutgemacht. Comment common, tear, grass, mind, loud, plaster, horny, figure German words?
I don't think so OK, I'll admit to 'grass' as the name of a writer. Comment "van" a German word? If you thought of Ludwig van Beethoven: Thus, "van" is Dutch, not German. Comment proper names grass don't count. Neither do cognates wind,trip,ball,sex,pole,bank,etc. Where do you get common,tear,mind,loud,plaster,horny,figure? Pfahl, Stab, Stange und der nord Pol! Comment "Words that have the same origin Comment I have wasted another half hour to come up with another 4 "Falsche Feinde": Eine Frage, die nichts mit dem gestellten Thema zu tun hat: Dein letzter Beitrag, um 6: Wann schlaft ihr eigentlich?
Comment die usa haben ja noch ein paar andere zeitzonen. Comment Heinz, auf deine Frage "Wann schlaft ihr eignetlich? Wenn ich also in New York wohnte, waere meine Antwort auf deine Frage "we don't". Wenn man das Suchen nach "Falschen Feinden" Arbeit nennen will. Aber keine Angst, um 1: Comment Hans, I should have remembered, since I used to live in the greater N. Comment Peter I didn't know that "old-timer" is a loan word, as you say. As far as I know it's a false friend like "dressman", "showmaster", "Chips", "Bowle", "Slip", Smoking" etc.
Unterrichtsstunde im neuen Schuljahr. Das eine ist krass und das andere ist cool Comment great list - it was fun to read it! BMW I was asking an american customer for a "beamer" to give a presentation, but they said: You get them cheaper in Germany LEO lists beamer as an english word, but at least in the US it's not used. Try to buy a beamer at ebay.
No projectors among offers. Comment allen - Allen key, screw, wrench Not sure if this counts, as Allen looks like a name to me. Comment I can't stand looking at this mega-thread without having added anything.
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When I reached 'p', I was surprised to find 'prima' as an English expression. It has the same meaning as it has in German so doesn't really fit here, but I just wondered how you would spell it: Comment Is the term "double-beamer" still around? I remember there was this fashion around 10 years ago. Comment durst archaic past tense of dare. Comment Und noch eins: I'm not aware of Prima in English. I checked two desk dictionaries which have it only as part of the expression "prima ballerina" which is used. Md my Webster's New Int'l unabridged 2nd also has it as a printing and proofreading term.
Thanks for Pylon, and welcome to the party! AW-I didn't understand your post, are you proposing "double-beamer" as a False Enemy? In this case it would have to be used in German, spelled exactly like that, and have no common origin with the English. This seems pretty unlikely. A reminder for anyone not familiar with earlier posts, here's a quick definition of "False Enemies": A word spelled identically in German and English letter for letter, ignoring umlauts, accents and capital letters on both sides and having no common origin; examples: Please refer to the long version of the definition at Aug 18 Comment here's an easy one or do we have that already?
Comment Ich haette noch "floss" im Angebot. Comment firm gas lose roll war. Comment I am in awe at how long we have kept this thread going. For a while, I thought we were getting to the bottom of the barrell, and that only the very obscure "Falsche Feinde" are left see my post "durst" from Sep. But "floss" and "firm" in the previous 2 posts demonstrate that there are still a lot of lucky finds to be made. By the way, "war" and "lose" were included in previous posts.
Comment Let's push it. Plural von See Stolen E: Comment Wie waers mit: Ich dachte du bleibst, Wochen Monate Jahre dran? Uebrigens eine sehr lustige Liste. Comment I am really impressed by this thread. Not only because of the great number of entries but because I find that I have less problems learning the english vocabulary by reading the "false friends" and the comments on them. This list would be a good aid for beginners and also experts. I would appreciate to get it. Not only because of the great number of entries but because I find that I have less problems learning the english vocabulary by reading the "false enemies" and the comments on them.
Comment to rappel, amerik. Comment einer geht noch: Dann muesste es doch auch den Regeln ensprechen, oder? Comment Silke--I'm always here, I just don't like to post too often unless I have something specific to share--this isn't "my" thread, it's ours, everybody's, it belongs to everyone who has contributed, and who will contribute.
Horst--everyone you see here is collecting the list, and LEO is kind enough to host the collection and thus give life to this mini-community, isn't it great? So far, we don't have a complete description of the English and German meanings, nor even a careful editing of the list to see which ones really are False Enemies. But for my part, I didn't want to get too involved in too many discussions about which words belong, because it might interfere with further collection of new words, unless a poster clearly misunderstood the definition.
At work there's sometimes a saying of "he who suggests it, does it" so if you want to start compiling a complete list with meanings, I'm sure we'd all appreciate it! It's great if you're learning from it, but don't forget the "False Friends" which classically is much more important for language learners, there are whole books on the subject. Thanks to all the new posts, I DO read and enjoy them all. Comment Germ - yeast germ - Keim. Comment What about christendom? Perhaps they're already old; I didn't read all these comments, because the list already quite long ;- Greetings from a "false-friends-suffering" German exchange student in Dallas, Texas!
Comment Almost a whole week has gone by, and no new "Falsche Feinde" have been posted. Are we reaching the point where we have captured all of them? I don't think so - but the specimens that are left in the wild are certainly becoming more elusive. I know there are more Falsche Feinde out there - let's catch them all!!
The following is the beginning of a 19th century poem which contains TWO Falsche Feinde both of which are new to this thread. Can you spot them? Comment I am not sure, but is "Springer" such a false friend? A new false enemy? Comment Sorry, the first line must be "false enemy". Comment Anne, da haste mitten ins Schwarze getroffen!!
Comment wie ist es mit wog D. Can't believe that all those animals are still missing Mute Dativ von Mut E: Comment Congratulations, we have reached entries by now. Maybe it is time to get into the discussion about questionable entries that do not meet the "Falsche Feinde" definition.
For the time being I have updated the "complete and uncensored list" and subdivided it into two sections. Comment Undisputed entries A-G: Comment Undisputed entries H-O: Comment Undisputed entries P-Z: Comment Questionable entries 64 in number: Comment This is of course no final verdict. In fact, everybody is invited to argue and prove that a certain word belongs in one or the other category i. Peter's definition of 18 Aug. All the same the FE-community and all newcomers are still called upon to hunt the remaining Enemies.
As Hans said earlier, "Let's catch them all! Comment Syl-de, a big thank you from me and the rest of the FE-community for compiling the latest list of False Enemies. I was thinking last week that it's about time that we had a complete list again. I was even considering doing it myself, wasting an hour or two on False Enemies, instead of painting the porch, and cleaning up the basement. But you have already done the job!! I especially like the way you divided the list into undisputed and questionable entries. Comment Many thanks at syl. I am sorry to say it's only entries as "smoking" and "gut" are included twice ;- Btw, I'd like to dispute the status of "smoking".
The German and the Englisch word clearly have the same English origin and are therefore no False Enemies. Comment I'm so sorry, but I have to reduce the total amount once more: In order to make good, I have a new one: Comment It was a very rainy sunday afternoon, when I noticed how many of those Falsche Feinde are still around. It was much fun to catch some more of them Austrian for parish boundary; E: Comment and the last bunch: Einheit and some additional relatives of already known Enemies: Comment syl-de, you are incredible. How did you find all these? It must have been a very long and very rainy Sunday Peter, it seems that you have created a new medical condition - the False Enemy Syndrome.
It's highly contagious, and addictive, too. Once you are hooked, you spend endless hours catching False Enemies, when you should be painting the porch, eating, or sleeping.
Maybe we need to start a therapy group Comment Count me in! Comment just found one in one of the other threads: Oregano, scientific name "Origanum vulgare" Sorry that I didn't include this one into my last and similar posting, but the idea came to me during the night. Well, I think it's time to paint the porch Comment I forgot to ask before: PA mentioned that "smoking" in English and in German looks back at the same origin, which is most likely. But does anybody know the reason for developing a totally different meaning in the German language?
Unfortunately I do have no source to look it up, yet would be interested to know how the different meanings developed. Or can somebody tell me where I might be able to look it up? Comment Heinz H, I have finished the first coat of paint on my porch. Thanks for reminding me. Since I have to wait for the paint to dry, I have some time to look up "smoking" Etymologie-Duden: Smoking ist die Kurzform von smoking-suit oder smoking-jacket.
Gemeint ist ein Jackett, das man in England nach dem Mittagsmahl zum "Rauchen" anzog, um den Frack zu schonen. Comment Vielen Dank, Hans! Even so it originated in English, smoking is - as far as I know - in respect of a garment not used or known anymore in this language. Quite interesting that the Germans picked it up and saved this meaning from extinction. Obviously our flair for Anglicisms has a long history. I hope your paint has dried up; it looks pretty much like rain is just around the corner.
As far as I know, "smoking jacket" is still used in the English language. Interestingly, the German "Smoking" or "Smokingjackett" denotes a prim dinner jacket, while the English "smoking jacket" is much more casual, sort of a "Hausjacke".
Comment Neither do I own a porch nor am I obliged to paint one. Thus, I could luckily hunt down another gang of Enemies. Comment Syl-de, don't you know that this "I could stop any time" attitude is one of the typical symptoms of FES addiction? You are deluding yourself. Please, please, seek help!! Find the nearest chapter of FES Anonymous. Don't get sucked into the maelstrom any deeper.
Ist "well" ein deutsches Wort? Comment Got another one! Ich will ES nicht den Punkt streitig machen, es kommt mir nur komisch vor Comment Merriam-Webster kennt zwar nicht das Grillrestaurant aber: French grille, alteration of Old French greille, from Latin craticula, diminutive of cratis wickerwork Date: Thanks for the hint! I always thought f-flat in German is simply "e". Therefore I checked a website on musical notes, low and behold what did I find? Fez, die Kopfbeeckung his D: Ist doch ein Unterschied, oder?
It is the same key on a piano, but when a very careful violinist plays the two notes, then e is a little bit higher than f-flat. I am sorry to say, but "as" was already included in Peter's very first posting albeit he meant the German 'as' as the note or the ace. Comment Sorry guys, there's no scoring for "fes". Believing syl-de, it's a turkish sort of hat like a small upside-down bucket, dark red, with a piece of black string fixed on top in English.
I'm afraid it's the same in German: You are right, but may I add that the imperative sing. According to Peter's Definition of 18 Aug, 9, it does not matter if words have two separate meanings, where one of them is only a cognate. Comment This would be absolutely boring! There are tons of words that have the same pronounciation and the same meaning in English and in German and then also some other meanings. There is nothing special about that, just look LEO up and down. I always looked for words that have definitely different meanings - and most of those listed above do.
But they are those really hard to find Is that worth a new thread? May I once more refer you to Peter's definition of 18 Aug esp. It is the unrelated origin not the differing meaning that make those words False Enemies. Although the word in German and English denotes the same part of the body and has the same etymological root it nevertheless is a False Enemy: What's so artificial about a hat and a note?
Google proves that both words are really being used. At least, used more often than the imperative of 'fliesen' ;-. I wasn't taking a swipe at your latest words. As a child I wanted a fes, and I've played weird things like Fes or Eis before. Halter, Griff wedding D: Stadtteil von Berlin, E: Comment This weekend being astonishingly warm and sunny has kept me from my favourite leisure activity most of the time. Italian or Spanish secular priest; E: Austrian for fatso ; E: Ware and again some relatives of already known Enemies: May I add this one: Comment "wider" as opposed to "wieder" ,given by stefan i think, is arguably not a word but a morpheme since "wider" needs an additional element to form a complete word: Going by the rules, anyway Oder "wider besseren Willens"?
Oder "Wider den tierischen Ernst"? Wider ist noch quicklebendig!! Comment hm wolf hast wohl recht gell? Comment Reinhard, I am afraid you are right. I'll try to find ersatz Comment Just came across unbar D: Comment Arrgrgrg -- this thread is driving me nuts! Low to High Price: High to Low Avg. Available for download now. Provide feedback about this page. There's a problem loading this menu right now.
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